Tuesday, February 12, 2008

You're breaking my heart... you're shaking my confidence daily...

I wasn't feeling well this weekend. Weird medicine reaction.

So... I decided to try Shadow Labs with Majeure. Maj, btw, is definately Kara ready, she just needs the attunment. Should be easy to knock out in a weekend. Anyway, I grabbed the SL daily quest and got into a group.

Prot pally, holy pally, rogue, dest lock and maj.

We got as far as blackheart, wiped twice and that was it. The prot pally was miserable. First the rogue pulled aggro, then the lock (lock died 5 times). Maj pulled aggro a coupla times... and you people need to understand...

For someone who has never played a tank... I understand aggro. I try my damn best not to pull aggro. Most of the time, I doan use omen... I started running instances way before it, and if you pay attention to what you're doin, you really shouldn't need it. And it helps to run stuff without it, since so many n00bs have never heard of it. Becoming dependent upon addons isa bad move... just in case.

For example... Oh! Double crit! time to take a quick break!

In raiding, you need omen, cuz the damage flashes on the mob too fast to keep track of your relative place. Omen is a must. On 5 mans... not so much.

Quick diversion. Was doin Nightbane.. and the raid was trying to teach the tank how to stance dance. (He wasa quick study, but it was still kinda harrowing) Anyway... here was the original idea... the raid leader calls the mass fear, the tank shifts to fear immune. The prob.. we were usin deadly boss mods, and it aint been workin right. Finally, the tank says.. "look, I can see the bellowing roar (Nightbane's mass fear spell)... Just let me do it my self. All this shouting at me just screws up my timing."

Doan get to dependent on addons people. Just saying.

Anyway, so im in a group... and ALL THREE DPS has pulled aggro. So I check the pally's talent build....

He has 44 points in protect, but is 0/3 in imp righteous fury.

"Er... dude... you doan have imp righteous fury? Why not?"

"Oh, I doan need it yet!"

Now, the problem with pally tanks...

Ifn you with a warrior... you can see the aggro generating debuffs. ("Doan attack until you see the white of their eyes! And at least two sunders!) Ifn you with a pally.. not so much. Time to turn on Omen and hope he has it... nope. See... pallies generate aggro like druids do... with damage. The difference is that druids generate aggro straight up. Bear form plus feral talents create a modifier, so that one point of fang and claw damage counts more than 2 or three points of mage burning yo mob ass off damage.

Pallies doan get the straight up crap. Pally aggro is generated via HOLY damage. Righteous fury is a buff they cast that magnifies threat generated via holy damage. Think of it as the bear form or defense stance pally equivalent. (I think it also reduces damage taken) So pally tanks need to max holy damage... and threat offa holy damage. Which is where imp righteous fury comes from.

K... imp righteous fury is a damn must. You might not NEED it. You doan NEED epic items for 90% of WoW content. They just really nice to have. There is no such thing as too much health, too much damage, or, fora tank, too much aggro. Only the heir to the throne of the emperor of all n00bs would think otherwise.

I had the honor of running SLs with his highness :(

One note on the blackheart fight asa frost mage. (And shade fight asa mage...) I went in with a nice little strat. When blackheart yells... time for some fun!... i block. And avoid most of the stupidity. You kin block twice, and pray that he doan burn evoke... and you'll survive it. It really shouldnt take more than 3 possessions to get him down.

Of course the pally tank managed to avoid aggro long enough to force me to burn my ice block at a bad time. (after the damn lock went down. two wipes, mage was last standing both times...)

Ice block is also a nice break for shade after the polymorph and before the pyroblast. Between ice barrer and frost ward, a frost mage is a potent member of a shade fight.

K.. one more note... as I noted, I really didn't feel well this past weekend. Mabd the despoiler did a ton of 2v2 with my new partner. Did 3v3 with maj and unbound. So i got my points in for the week. I getta call from Melvin last night. "Get on! We need to do 5v5!"

"Er... guy... you got your points offa 3v3, I got my points offa 3v3, whats the rush?"

"This is 5v5! We'll get more points!"

"um... the 3v3 is 1400. The 5v5 team is 1350. Itsa same points anyway."

"Just get on!"

So I log... and see Herk! Woot! He needs points for his warrior and druid, and I really didn't wanna play... so I get Melvin to sub Herk and his druid in, and I bug.

Next week... gonna be the same. Ima gonna try to get Herk into regular arena point farming. First, he'll get the gear to become competitive. Second, enough time to Melvin and crew, and he'll appreciate me more... Either way my exposure to the Melvin/Herk arena madness will be limited.

Well, that's the plan.

Damn I wanna find a sub rogue to hang with Maj now.


Ngita said...

Omen has its place, Sure I have seen people saying why dont you have omen in scarlet monastary:) and it doesnt really belong their.

But pre-omen, pre aggro drops. Ok pug tank, 1st pull, be really gentle, 2nd pull push harder. 5th, 6th pull. Aggro and die. Ok now I know how hard I can go. Sure you can look for sunder and check their gear but until you know the limit you can only hold yourself back.

But something like a heroic where I trinket and a shaman drops heroism I quickly climb to 125%, Drop aggro and then keep going hard climbing to 125% again as boss dies, just as heroism runs out.

sonvar said...

Thats why I like warrior tanks I know when I see two sunders I should be good to go. With other tank types I just have to wait a while before pew pewing. Though if I'm having to trap I should be good there as I want to make my mob is trapped before I begin going after the main target. If that Pally want to continue being a tank he needs to take that talent without question.

Ysaurion said...

Oh geez....

Sorry, but no matter what stage you're at as a protection paladin there is NO time where you can't have those points in imp righteous fury. It is the talent that makes you a tank (plus 6% damage reduction, yummy). You need it in 5-mans, you need it in 25-mans.

Mabd, you have the worst luck with pally tanks. I'm so sorry.

-Ysaurion, BE prot pally
Heresiarch - Drenden

Anonymous said...

@Sonvar - a competent Pally tank actually generates aggro much more quickly than a warrior; he will have 3/3 Imp Righteous Fury, open with Avenger's Shield, and then the DPS is off to the races. Not to mention that he's Salved the DPS, right? He's also using a spell damage weapon that is enchanted with 40 Spell Damage. His spec is most likely 0/49/12, and never includes points in Holy. Armory your PUG tanks first, right?

Blackheart, though - he's probably the worst 5-man boss in Outland for a Pally to tank. Pally tanks cannot hold aggro without mana, and our mana is generally gone by the end of the first "Time for fun!" A good prot pally will immediately pot and go back to work; if the DPS are good, you won't go through more than 2 of those phases. If not, pot cooldown FTL. If a Druid or Warrior is in the group, they can tank him better because they use Rage.

Prot pallies rule 5-mans, but not that fight. Let's go run Heroic BM instead. =D

Azorius, Blackhand (Fedaykin98, aka pallytank)

Anonymous said...

Paladins are the most front loaded threat producers that exist. Your paladin was just crap. Throw out the wings and throw the shield. Then judgement of righteousness and that boss mob is glued to the Paladin. Improved righteous fury is a requirement. If they don't get that a flat 6% reduction in damage and a 90% boost in threat is good then that is not the only thing that they are doing wrong... Frankly I am amazed that you made it to the boss.

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